Is it possible to group items?

Edit Subject

It is now April 14th, 2010.
Can we now group items? ;)

"In the next version (we will release on 1th of April) you will be able to store groups."
("The company and 1 other person say this answers the question.")

Hi all,

I first received a comment 8 hours ago by Sofia Zackrisson ("Hi! This must unfortunately have been a mistake. Where did you read it? Kind regards, Sofia"). I was very pleased to see PREZI's quick response.

I was going to reply that it was on this page, on one of the first replies to the question, but I can't prove that anymore, as the original post has been removed (see change log below). Apparently, Sofia's comment has also been deleted, but I received it in my email, so I am still able to reproduce it. I was very disappointed to find that PREZI had altered the question items and I was unable to dispute this in the appropriate venue as I could not locate the "Dispute" link (that apparently should be available and actually appears in the copied text below).

I certainly do understand that PREZI cannot develop every requested feature at once. I was hoping for a reply that would apply specifically to this feature request (not to feature requests in general), as it has been raised over a year ago, and was actually promised for April 1st (I don't know if 2009 or 2010 -- but I suspect 2009 because someone else asked again saying it's already September). This promise was in the reply deleted earlier this morning and is no longer available on this page. The change log below does provide a reason for the deletion ("Sorry, but promised grouping function but didn't work on it."), but it would have been more forthcoming on PREZI's part if this was added as a comment to the reply, or included as another reply, instead of removing the statement I had just quoted.

To answer Zoli's question, I would use the grouping feature in a manner very similar to how I use it in another presentation software (specifically Powerpoint): once I have arranged several items in the desired size and relative position, I group them so that any resizing or moving of the items will occur both together and proportionately. PREZI's current configuration does allow us to resize and move proportionately, but in order to do that together, we must again select each item every time we want to move or resize them (for instance, a whole section of the presentation), so it's very time-consuming and it's easy to forget to select something within that was very tiny. Also, it's difficult to select items of very different sizes, so I end up having to select all the tiny ones, move them elsewhere, select all the bigger ones, move them to the desired place, select all the tiny ones again and then struggle to place them exactly where I want them in relation to the bigger items -- again. I have to do this with all of the items visible, so I can't see as precisely as I would if I zoomed in. But when I zoom in to check, I can't move the items jointly selected any more, so I have to either adjust each tiny item separately -- or undo and again select each tiny item and try again, and again, and again. So a grouping feature would allow me to scale up my use of PREZI.

I hope this message helps the PREZI team to address both the feature request and the dynamics of the support section. I think PREZI is an awesome tool, and there appear to be awesome people working on it. I intend to use PREZI more and more, and I know people who see it become pretty impressed (I've used it for two classes in the past 10 days, and several students told me that they checked out PREZI after the first class).

Hope to hear from you soon,

Elisa

Changes to the question
Is it possible to group items?

In order to preserve the promise of transparency and open communication, the change log records changes to topics made by both customers and employees. Anyone can dispute a change by clicking the "Dispute" link and entering additional details.

Today

*
10:08 AM
Sofia Zackrisson
Removed a reply in this topic
Let us know why you'd like to dispute this change:
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Apr 1406:36 AM
Peter Halacsy
Removed a reply in this topic
Reason: Sorry, but promised grouping function but didn't work on it.

Nope. Shift key tip doesn't work.

Oh, you know what? I just realized that yesterday I was working on a Mac, today on a PC, where this worked flawlessly. I wonder if it just doesn't on a Mac?

okay, add me to the permanent-grouping-is-ultra-urgent crowd... I would really really REALLY appreciate this feature!

Actually, it is a prerequisite if I were to signup to the PRO version!

I cannot understand why Prezi resists a group function, it should have been built in from the start, its not a development "nice to have" its essential. It is one of the factors that stops me from signing up to the paid service.

Prezi get groups, and get more customers

I work on a Mac and the shift key function for grouping really won't work. Does anyone that works on or at Prezi know a Mac equivalent function?
Thanks, Owen.

Just throw my hat into the ring...

Like everyone else, I find the absence of a grouping option disappointing - although I would rather have no grouping function than an unreliable group function, so taking time to get it right is worthwhile.

However, the use of the shift trick to manually group items is important and should be added into the FAQ or other support materials - I had to work this out on my own, and it should have been mentioned in the existing help.

I'll put my positive view of Prezi somewhere else, as this is one of my few niggles. :)

I have figured out that shift and grouping doesn't work on Mac OS 10.4, but does work on 10.5 and later, so if anyone is wondering why they can't get it to work, that might be it.

Thanks, Owen.

Felipers,
After you group, you can hold shift and individually click on things you want to ungroup.

Angelie

Gary,
I think we need to cut these guys some slack. Grouping as a feature is a great idea, but even looking at the XML code I can see that defining a group becomes a real hard thing to execute on when it comes to pathing.

These guys have hundreds, even thousands of feature requests flying at them everyday - including an HTML 5 version of Prezi. As they work to evolve the product I think we have to help them understand what the priorities are so that their roadmap works.

As a self-proclaimed Prezi power-user (that's a lot of p's) I don't find myself putting Grouping at the very top of my list anymore. Sure, it's a feature I'd like to have, but shift-click drag for selecting multiple items works great - seriously. I have a ton of features way above this on my list:

i.e. IPad and HTML5 support
Ability to embed HTML elements - even a web page
Style editing (i.e. change the font and the basic colors)

That's just a few of them that are way above grouping.

Anyway, I agree with you, maybe Zoli can publish the roadmap to help us as users manage our expectations.

Thanks for participating!
- Drew

I agree that the customer-facing experience is vital for SaaS subscription-based products. I disagree that the problem is attitude rather than specifics. The official reps (Angelie, et al) seem unfailingly polite, acknowledge our concerns, offer such explanations as they can and thank us for our efforts. They also avoid that idiocy that's so common elsewhere - trying to convince us that we really shouldn't want the feature and that we're better off without it. They're just woefully short on the specific result we want - just give us the blasted grouping feature or some specific information beyond "we've got a lot on our plates". If that answer satisfied, you wouldn't see this kind of dialogue.

Grouping is a feature that would affect only the editing process and not the playback. It's not so difficult that virtually every competing product hasn't already managed to implement it. I'm a professional speaker, too. There are two immutable realities in my personal world. First, there are always last minute changes to make. Second, an unexpected result (leaving a "should-be-grouped" item behind) from a last-minute edit is intolerable. No amount of politeness, central-europen cultural sensitivity or small start-up sympathy will change either of those realities.

We users can also stop trying to make this something it's not.. It's not a cosmic corporate culture clash (how's that for alliteration, Drew?) It's just a question of differing business priorities. The Edu license is an unfortunate example for Prezi to have cited, but it clarifies the issue. They believe (probably rightly) that it will help grow the business more than a grouping feature will. Unfortunately, that answer doesn't earn my business. Prezi - do you get that people WANT to love your program? All of the time and effort posting here is an indication of that. We wouldn't be pissed about the missing Group feature if there weren't other things we liked about your product. Unfortunately, those other things aren't enough - at least not for me.

Jaapvr,

"The amount of time i lost by rearranging lots of stuff is huge, and makes me resort back to powerpoint very often."

I don't want to have a debate with you. Don't get me wrong. I would like to understand your motivation. So let me ask why grouping could decrease the time needed for rearranging stuffs? Now e have shift+select to move items together. You would like to save the time needed for shift+select?

Here I use grouping as 'persistent shift+select'.

peter

This issue is getting silly. Peter, you just don't seem to get it. You seem to keep fobbing off your customers with more filibustering (look it up!)

Get MindManager 9. It does everything you want and more. it's not designed to be presentation software, but it's more useful because of that.

And it has a great presentation mode - as well as an "automated presentation view" (like path flow in prezi). OK, so it's not animated in the same way as prezi, but in some ways this is preferable - simplicity is more stylish.

It costs $350 for the full version, or $150 for an educational license. It's a one-off purchase, not an annual subscription.

For more details, visit http://mindjet.com/products/mindmanag....

You can also get free software that does almost all the same things, and not quite so pretty. Try Freeplane. I usually use Freeplane for quick 'n dirty presentations and MindManager if I need a more professional-looking corporate presentation.

Peter, if you want to keep your customers (and the income from their ongoing subscriptions) then make a plan to enhance your product by implementing the most requested features, have a project planning meeting with your development team, and then publish a roadmap of exactly what you are going to implement in future releases and when.

It's a good product, so far. You have a good business. It deserves to be successful. Don't sabatogue your chances over silly arguments about what customers do or don't want or need. Give them what they want and tell them when you will deliver, or risk losing your customers and your business.

It's quite simple really.

completely agree on the request for grouping.
Unfortunately, the situation is typical: developers don't understand the needs of customers, because thy just don't use their own product that much

Is anybody in San Francisco (or Bay area) or in Budapest who would be so kind as to join a user test session?

Well, Peter, thank you for otherwise great product! It's time to kill powerpoint, and I am glad that you have endeavored to achieve this!

However, your comments within this thread - and previous experience with other great IT products -- made me to arrive at my conclusion above. I may be mistaken.

What I feel though, is that often people create great product, then they don't use it as much as their most loyal customers, and therefore the creators fail to appreciate the rationale behind some of their customers' requests.

Then come newer competitors, who address the issues, and win. This happened to visicalc, which was killed by lotus 1-2-3, which was later killed by Excel. And with many other great products too.

Your case might be different. Any way, than you for the product, which I am trying to use in Cyrillics - and that is hard as well :( It still is way better than powerpoint for simple narrative presentations, at least!

Peter, sorry for the delay in answering your questions. In the interim several others have answered very capably. I agree with most of Jakob's answers. I would add a couple of thoughts...

On grouping - the new group is treated as a single object, to be placed in the back-to-front "stack" of objects at the level of the highest individual object in the group. As an alternative, some programs will simply place the new group at the front of the entire stack, just like any other newly created object. Within the group, the original front-to-back order of the objects is maintained. The user can then move the group forward or backward in the object stack as he wishes.

On ungrouping - it is VERY useful to be able to ungroup easily. The ungrouped objects are inserted in the "stack" of objects wherever the group had been.previously.

on editing the group - it is likewise very useful to be able to edit one or more objects inside a group WITHOUT completely ungrouping. Because it can take a lot of effort to create the group, it is good to be able to make adjustments without losing all of that work. Sometimes this is done by clicking the group, then Ctrl-click to step through the members of the group. Once the desired object is isolated, the adjustment can be made. When that object is de-selected, the group is "re-compiled" using the adjusted objects.

On being active during presentation or playback - the group IS active, but in a limited way. Any animation or motion applied to the group is based on the bounding box of the entire group, not the individual objects inside it. A Zoom in or rotation is based on the center of the group, not the centers of the individual objects.

Finally, to George's comment about employees not using Prezi - in my experience, just the opposite is true. Employees use Prezi so much that NONE of its features are unfamiliar, opaque or counter-intuitive. They already know every workaround, which is why they don't always understand that we don't. They alredy have a solution to every problem they've encountered, and forget that there was a time when they didn't know the answers.

What they don't use much (in my experience at least) is the competing products that shape everyone else's expectations. That's why so many feature requests create misunderstandings. We come to the table ass-deep in PowerPoint, Keynote, etc. We expect THAT functionality as a starting point, and all cool new features to start from there. Most software developers (especially start-ups) come to the table ass-deep in their own products, and start the conversation from an entirely different place.

That's why these forums are so useful. They can bridge that gap, if everyone keeps their frustrations in check.

Peter - I'm based in New Orleans, but if your tests can be done remotely, I will be glad to participate.

Paul