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I’m
frustrated
Can I make something like transparent frames?
As frames are the tool to group chunks of knowledge together and make the camera stop zooming in it would be great to make those frame transparent at least in presentation mode. Otherwhise I've always got these sometimes quite artificial circles, rectangles or brackets.
Official
Response
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here is a temporary solution again. i know its not optional, but it might help some of your project for the moment.
http://prezi.com/_qeyolkkmikl/
click reuse on the bottom right.
just save a copy to use this as a style for a new prezi of yours.
Promoted
Response
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![Adam [founder]](https://d2r1vs3d9006ap.cloudfront.net/public/uploaded_images/7249176/adamicon_medium.png)
EMPLOYEE
3Hi,
we plan to streamline this process with various ideas in the future.
for the time being, you can upload anything, like an image or a transparent vector drawing, and use it as a frame, or structuring background element.
you could also upload a large white / etc box, and simply cover all frames with it - send it to the background while editing, and bring it up, between the texts and the frames, before presenting.
here is an example: http://prezi.com/553/
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EMPLOYEE
3Hi,
we plan to streamline this process with various ideas in the future.
for the time being, you can upload anything, like an image or a transparent vector drawing, and use it as a frame, or structuring background element.
you could also upload a large white / etc box, and simply cover all frames with it - send it to the background while editing, and bring it up, between the texts and the frames, before presenting.
here is an example: http://prezi.com/553/ -
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I have used your advice Adam and it works quite well (the white boxes on top of some frames). But I sometimes "see through" the white boxes. I think I have the layering right. When I'm not zooming, everything looks fine. When I'm zooming in, I sometimes see a gray flicker of the frame and when I zoom all the way, the background turns to gray, as if the white box is too thin or something (weird in 2D).
Is this a problem I can work around or is it a Flash rendering issue or something?
http://prezi.com/13028/
thanx.
BTW: Prezi is really really great. My presentation is going to rock some teachers toupées off :) -
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Ok, sorted it out. It was probably the same problem someone else had on the forum with zooming in too far. Some big pictures disappear when you zoom in too far. So were the white boxes I used. If I place some extra small white boxes on the areas where I want to zoom into, there's no problem :)
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I’m
frustrated
Using white boxes to cover up the frames doesn't work for me because I am using the grey overlay frames. I use them because then you can click any where on them to get the same zoom level. So for example, if I upload an image and write a bunch of text in prezi below it, I want to zoom in on that entire entity not just the image or just the text. -
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I run into Danyal's problem a lot. An image with a caption zooms to the image and cuts off the caption.
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If you click on the white image below the text and the image, you zoom in to the whole lot..
That worked for me -
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I’m
amused
You really have to love that Prezi is so organic that you can do workarounds like this. There are many programs that don't do the things you want, but workarounds are impossible because of the rigidity of the programming.
I just hope Prezi programmers can maintain the feel of Prezi, the simplicity, the freshness, etc even after adding all the features we keep begging for here on getsatisfaction.com -
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thany you Greg,
transparent frames are technically possible right now. What we don't know how to add this feature to the interface? Transparency setter? It sounds very complicated.
peter
halacsy -
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How about another ring on the zebra wheel for transparency? You could adjust an objects transparency in the same manner as you would its size or rotation.
In this way transparency becomes part of the Place menu, and does not require it's own menu. It's just another option on the zebra wheel. -
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Do you think people needs setting transparency? I don't think. I think they need invisible frames. Maybe it's a 4th frame type?
peter
halacsy -
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I’m
excited
yes, I like this option. -
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Peter, I think transparency is a useful tool in any application that uses images and text. I also think that if you treat transparency as a global option for all Prezi objects (including frames) it keeps to the simplicity of the interface but at the same time adds a potentially powerful global feature.
You could also do it the way you suggest and create transparent frame as an option, but you would have to create at least two: one circle, one rectangle so that people could use it to accurately control zooms based on the layout (overall shape) of their content.
You could even hybridize my suggestion and have the zebra wheel only give transparency options for frames.
Quick and dirty mock-up of a change to the zebra wheel that would allow transparency adjustments. The arrows would be the new transparency up/down feature; from 0 to 100% opacity. Of course I'm not saying it has to look like this, I'm just saying it could be done without losing the aesthetic.
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Hi Greg - This looks quite good - I just feel that you need transparency settings much less, than moving for example - and also, you probably won't need it for texts and images, or rather very rarely.
How about adding this:
- Frames are always somewhat transparent, unlike texts.
- Frames have an option to be invisible during presentations. This is one setting for frames we add to frames in editing mode. (like texts have some local settings, with small icons - we can have an 'eye' icon next to frames)
And we add a CSS editor, so if you really want to play around, you can.
Do you think this would solve the need while keeping simplicity? -
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Adam. I think having the option to make existing frames transparent in presentation mode is a good solution.
I just thought that if adjusting the level of transparency (not just transparent "yes or no", but rather "more or less" transparent) for all Prezi objects was important to users, a more direct method would be appropriate. That's really not my call though, as I'm just one among a growing group of users. If there was a way to poll on this issue I would.
I do agree with you that transparency is less of a day-to-day issue than size, rotation and movement. Still somehow it seems to fit with those menu options.
A CSS editor I suppose would be a solution that advanced users would be happy with. Though CSS typically is used to apply global settings, so if you wanted to set say 1 frame (for whatever reason) to 50% opacity, I don't see exactly how that would work. -
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Thanks - yes, CSS would be a global solution, thanks for clarifying your use case.
While we figure this out - you can always just upload a frame-shaped transparent swf drawing (if you have access to flash. and I know we already said this, sorry) -
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I’m
amused
I'm not a flash user. I meant to get into it, but it's like surfing and playing the guitar. All three are on my "learn to do" list.
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Glad you liked the index cards comment and thanks for the offer. Despite my comments, the only thing I probably could make use of at the moment would be some truly transparent frames. One circle and one rectangle. The desire for something semi transparent is more aesthetic, and I wouldn't know I wanted it unless I was in the "design moment". '-)
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So, for the time being fully transparent frames which become visible during editing are a little tricky to use, so I did 10% transparent ones. These would most probably not show up on a projection, but are visible on a screen.
http://intra.prezi.com/~adam/gifts/10...
you upload them, select, and press 'd' to duplicate. add them to your path, they would behave pretty much like built-in frames. -
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Transparency in general is a form design oriented visual control that like zoom allows for presenter to represent subtle form of information on the fly... instead relying on external image processing tool like Photoshop which slows down the narrative building process. Bringing in universal transparency controls like you have with zooming would make your offering much stronger... and reduce unnecessary repetitive image processing. IMHO, design professionals rely more on transparency than on other visual effects because it is practical and effective.
Let’s say you have a large aerial map and you wish to bring in illustration that are designed to overlay the map with a 50% opacity or you wish to bring in a logo and overlay in a subtle way... the best way to do this is with a object level transparency control in the zebra wheel as proposed by Greg. Why force all the round trips to Photoshop.
Also the frames tool seems to be a form of grouping which right now appears to be confused with drawing. I would suggest redefining your current frame tool as the “Shape” tool with basic primitive forms... and create a new bubble for frames this is specifically for grouping, that can be color filled and allow for global opacity control... set in the bubble menu (Place>Frame>transparency slider). -
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Thanks Simon - Our general approach is that we hope to keep prezi simple - and concentrate on ease of use - we can never reach the level of options, tools, fine tune algorithm of programs like illustrator. gradient settings? radial gradients?
At the same time - you are right - Transparency might be a good simple addition, but I guess we should answer this question first:
Why do we need it?
What would you use them for? (I mean from a storytelling, narrative point of view)
And how often do you need it?
If you are new to a program, every new feature, tool, makes it harder and harder to start using it. Of course we have to support our expert users just as wholeheartedly.
I think a good analogy here is text size in numbers - most programs have it, I don't think Prezi needs it. What is needed though is to ability to create same sized texts - as it communicates structure and relations. (but I think there might be easier ways for that than pt numbers)
Same question for transparency - what would that communicate?
(Thanks for all the great input btw) -
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The modification to the zebra wheel proposed by Greg above... address the desired goal for simplicity. And the opacity ring can even be smaller than the proposed illustration - so that the primary zebra wheel activities (scale, rotate, position) are not compromised. I agree Prezi should never attempt to be illustrator or photoshop, etc and the activities in these tools are geared for an audience with deeper skills.
Transparency, works like scale, position and rotation in that is a way to quickly adjust the objects importance and or collage it in a layered way. You see, as the mind realizes associations most fitting for a visual narrative... the added degree of freedom with opacity control (slider or 0~100%) amplifies the effectiveness of interaction. Also, the variable opacity of graphical objects is an accepted convention in modern communications... If we went back 50 years, it would be difficult to argue the need for any of this, and any related degrees of freedom or even presentation tools. Thus education or persuasion based communication of the past was more of an oral competency and the mental model of what was to be communicated was without a functioning toolset for visual communication. Consequently spoken and written word and the practitioners of these arts have established historical precedence over visual / design communication. Fast forward to today and all of the sudden, practitioners of design oriented communication and visual narratives have tools that match the mental model of what needs to get done... Perzi opens a visual narrative stream of consciousness that empowers the use to make immediate expression of the vision... unhampered by the production hurdles associated with related forms of communication such as illustration, film, image processing, and mind mapping. Top level professional and novices alike can appreciate this kind of engagement.
. There will be some things like you have pointed out that are completely unnecessary like gradients along with a host of other drawing an image processing things. I’m not arguing for any of that.
The Flash engine allows for this type of control on any graphic objects or movie clips and if Prezi has any type of Flash engine under the hood it would seem that the functional aspects of including opacity would be possible.
Why do we need it? To make the product match user expectations (respectfully within the design constraints framed in this style of this product).
What would you use them for? To do the following: increase information depth, de-emphasize an object, blend the meaning or value of more than one object, and balance the visual aggregate on the Prezi map.
And how often do you need it? Every time I use it.-
Many thanks for this thorough input.
Do you think we should consider a different name instead of transparency? Like:
Mute
Saturate
something that talks about the effect, rather than the technology. -
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You may run into problems with mute being associated with audio and saturation with "color saturation". How about "intensity", "opacity", "fog", or "smoke". :)
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Agreed. Mute is definitely an audio term. I'd go with opacity.
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I’m
hungry
how about a new type of frame, lets call them Inviso-frames.
you see them as semi transparent while working on the prezi, but while running the prezi the inviso-frames have their visibility set to false.
and perhaps add a inviso-frame visibility toggle while in build mode. -
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I’m
bemused, as opposed to amused
Inviso-Frames. Sounds like something you'd buy out of the back of a boys magazine. That, x-ray glasses and sea monkeys.
Seriously, I think this would work, but I like the idea of having control over the opacity of frames and other objects. Seems simpler (from the global perspective) to just have opacity as an option for all objects.
:-D -
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I’m
frustrated
I also ran into this. I emailed Peter Halacsy about this and other issues, but got no response (yes, we're a paying customer).
Making a white box doesn't work. Here's reasons why:
We're using a transparent SWF as an invisible frame. Problems with it are:
- You can't find it anymore once it's placed (so we made tiny corner brackets which are ugly but necessary)
- Space bar won't zoom out to the transparent frame but to the next /real/ prezi frame. Highly annoying.
An invisible frame type would be the only solution.
So far we've not needed transparency. -
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I’m
so pleased I have prezi in my life
Hi all
I do use the white frame option in mine. I tend to use a PDF which I make the paper size of the PDF in the proportions I want for the zoom eg portrait/landscape, square, DL. I haven't had any major dramas with it. I also colour fill the PDF with the colour of the prezi background if I am doing a dark back ground prezi. I have been using DL size pdf's for most of my graphic uploads. I also may not bring the pdf for framing in until I have started getting my groupings together then push it to the back - makes it less likely to lose it.
I like the suggestions of transparent frames, but at this stage, I don't find it totally necessary. -
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My "invisible frame" solution has been to create a textbox with only space- and return-characters (Prezi requires minimum of four spaces to activate a textbox). I size the textbox up or down for frame size, then put stuff on top of the textbox. To focus out on the "frame" I just point the mouse or path to the textbox. Works every time.
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a real hacker on board, smart!
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I'm gonna try it right away!
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I’m
frustrated
As interesting as Relliott's work around with the text boxes is, it's far from ideal. It requires a lot of fidgetting around with enters, spaces and scaling to get the rectangle you want, and it's very hard to place it, because it's always invisible... and the ability for invisible frames to be visible when editing and invisible when viewing is paramount. Also, they don't function as frames, so you can't auto-zoom out to them and other frame-specific properties.
Really a solution for this can't be that hard. Just add another frame type that is invisible and get it done with... it's been a long time since this problem became apparent. We could really use a solution here because it's making life in Prezi a bit hard sometimes. -
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I've started using the text frame hack and attepting to train others to use it and I have exactly the same frustrations as "exxcept". You have to guess at where the invisible text frame is and where it is paced when you have the zebra tool active.... not good.. no visual feedback. The other frames tools end up cluttering up my presentations - especially if frames overlap. Hidding the existing frame tools is annoying especially if they cannot be grouped to some type of layer. The community needs this functionality corrected. The current application is forcing us to use ridgid design elements that should be optional. You are on the verge of something very useful... please help us with this.
If modifying the existing drawing and framing tools is too costly (as previoulsy outlined), how about just allowing the visibility of all frames to be controlled. In this case... the framing controls work as they do now... but the user can turn off the visibility of frames - while maintaining their path link functionality (during edit and show).
If Prezi allows users to quickly construct visual narratives (something that can fit into eveyone's workflow)... why block the professionals from using the toolset, when thay are the ones who will turn around and build broad range commitment and advocacy of the product. In a professional designer's scenario... creative layouts would come in from illustrator or photoshop... and the all the interaction level details and content gets built in Prezi. This is a powerful workflow... unfortunately it is precisely this workflow where the professional designer, forced to use all these visual frames (without detail controls), says "huh?". -
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I’m
frustrated
I really need to figure something out that will work with this grey background that wont take me forever to fix this prezi presentation. I was so excited I was finally done editing this, then I get to the pathing stage and go to capture and zoom in on specific parts of my presentation and I get these ugly brackets. I honestly expected them to stay there for the creation of the pathing, which would be fine, but the final product, I just don't understand it. I'm super frustrated because at this point, I can't submit this as a portfolio to future employers unless I can figure out a workaround for this grey background I've chosen my projects to layout on :( Any suggestions? All of the above are mainly for the white background and I definitely don't have time for the text box suggestion..... :(-
Cassy
Make a pdf or jpeg file with exactly the same colour back ground as your file (ie use your eyedropper colour fill option in whatever program you use) Make the page or pic proportions roughly what you want the frames to be eg rectangle portrait/landscape, square, long thin etc. Then upload that file and put it over each of you zoom frames - resize to fit each one with the zebra wheel then drop them to the back. When you do your path you will zoom to the background pic/pdf not the frame at the front.
if you need help feel free to email me sandgburns [at] bigpond [dot] com
Gina -
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I’m
feel Thursday
Cassy, you can set your path also to any kind of objects, images and text fields.
See attached file:
Another option is if you use rectangular frame tool instead of brackets. Imho, light grey rectangular fields are not ugly at al. -
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I’m
huh?
The reply by Cassy Johnson... "I really need to figure", is exactly the case I have been trying to make. Prezi is forcing the user to use a graphic element... that other do not care about or desire (the brackets) to create path nodes. The paths in Prezi are critical to overall value and innovation of how it works. I'm guessing the product development assumption is that “edit” mode and the "show" mode should look similar and this is something of a wysiwyg (persistent). Well, from a users perspective, it's a disconnect for anyone looking to build their message and eliminate extraneous elements that detract from the message. Would you keep the text editing controls on each text field you add to the presentation for the show? Would you leave the node path line in the presentation in the show? I don’t think so.
You have to provide a transparent frame element... that the user can control or that does not render in the show mode. Yes you have covered the work arounds, and frankly they are not desirable create execution gaps in a larger production (forcing a user to backtrack mentally to non-obvious edit methods or find hidden text frames draped over sections of the presentation).
And what about imported layouts that have multiple pictures. Let’s say a user puts together a complex design poster in Illustrator or Photoshop or something like that and imports it as a swf file. It would be beautiful to wire it up with Prezi Paths additional content, etc and make a show. The problem the user runs into is that Prezi thinks about the imported swf as one image and overlaying frames in Prezi adds graphic elements that have nothing to do with the original design. But this problem affects the user working only Prezi as well as the expert importing a poster type of layout with multiple elements. Both user types, novice and expert, are scratching their head think “Huhh?”
There is too much visual design control being applied at the application level. The design of your product should be to provide the user with new degrees of freedom... not art direction and styling that is imposed from above. Release this control to the user.-
The last statement is an excellent summary of my frustration with Prezi.
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EMPLOYEE
I’m
excited
Simon - I completely agree. But this is all I can disclose at this moment :)
( know this topic is one year old, still something made me write the above sentence...) -
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Hi Adam,
For my money, the transparent frames should be a major priority, as the great majority of users (or at least me) do not want to be forced to include alien visual elements in their carefully crafted presentation... the beauty of Prezi is simplicity, and simplicity includes not having a square set of frames forced into your presentation. It's the one serious negative I have about an otherwise excellent product. -
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here is a temporary solution again. i know its not optional, but it might help some of your project for the moment.
http://prezi.com/_qeyolkkmikl/
click reuse on the bottom right.
just save a copy to use this as a style for a new prezi of yours. -
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I’m
frustrated
I don't mind trying the first suggested workaround, but IMHO its going to take a lot of time right now that I don't have. I just spent it on creating this prezi...the thing about my prezi is that it consists of design boards where I need to zoom in on several different images on the boards to give the viewer an idea of what is on the overall project. By trying any workaround, most aren't going to work because the background colors are not always going to be the background of the prezi, the majority of the backgrounds are still parts of my presentation board or other images on my presentation board. I know this post was a year old, Adam, but I realllllly wish there was something in this version that was just released that included this :( Im at my whits end right now...The layout of the prezi is beautiful, but for my audience, I cannot present it looking like this and even tho I find it more appealing than PPT I don't want to have to use PPT just bc of this capture issue after all this work:(
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Transparency now! Viva la nothing!
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Adam, is there a way to use those semi transparent frames in my current presentation?
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Adam dropped this gift for me many months ago: 10% Transparent Frames . You just upload them and they act more-or-less like built in frames.
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cassy - are you working online or in prezi desktop?
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adam, im working online. thanks for your help.
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adam, the url is http://prezi.com/ctespgfonbqv/
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I’m
hmm
that would be greatly appreciated. im going to go ahead and fix the capture pathing, because i deleted it before. right now it is only allowing me to do capture mode in brackets for the frame, how can i change that to the rectangular box? i feel like ive tried everything and it should be pretty simple...thx
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i faded out your bracket frames. let me know if this works for you
adam -
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thats awesome, thank you SO much!
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I’m
framed by brackets.
I'm observing this partial fix being made for Cassy on the server and wonder if this fix can be shared out to the rest of us. If you have a simple application component that I can swap-out that would fade the brackets element out at Show time... that would be very helpful.
Viva la nothing! -
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I’m
Happy!
I would like to send the entire Prezi team a gigantic thank you!!! The new version of Prezi Desktop (2.003), that was released last week has what we have all been wanting (Transparent Frames). If you have not updated your version of Prezi Desktop yet... you are going to be pleased with this when you do. Great job Prezi Team!
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Thank you. And do you know that we have a new version of the Desktop itself? Go to prezi.com/desktop and please upgrade
peter
halacsy -
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I’m
smiling
There's a lot of love in this room
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Hi!
I am trying to change the color of a individual frame.. is there any way to do it now? -
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The first time you present an audience with a Prezi story and they experience once static information in a newly augmented and stimulating way, they are left with an impression and are likely to remember the experience, hopefully retaining some of the information presented. The second and third time... well, not so much. The parlor trick begins to wear thin as it gets repeated to those who've seen it before.
That's not to say that Prezi doesn't have staying power. Powerpoint has been around for a decade and it's still being used by most, even though it's bells and whistles have lost their luster long ago. What's my point? It's this, even though you are right not to attempt a reinterpretation of an Adobe product, you have to see the value of adding a powerful new control over animation and hence multiplying the audience experience. Perhaps it's hard to see the value of Transparency control without experiencing it in a Prezi. Maybe someone can share a Flash file where this tool is used effectively.
Suffice it to say that I do not give much credence to the "keep it simple, stupid" argument as my 9-year-old was fully capable of assembling a 15-minute presentation on Mayan Art using all of the tricks in the Prezi bag. Adding one more layer of experience would give Prezi needed staying power and relevance.
Others are right to point out that if you guys don't do it, someone else will. -
EMPLOYEE
Can you make frames invisible in Show mode or Group items without a frame?
I'm glad to see an answer already available.